Curse

Tr0n · May 11, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Am I the only one who thinks that Factions suffers from an even larger "no-RPG-love" syndrome than Prophecies?

The story is very basic and uninterested, cut scenes boring, voice-acting below average and the immersion - well, what immersion? Reading tons of NPC dialog is not exactly what I was hoping for.

I had very little desire to play thru the story because I would be interested as to what was going on. My only "goal" was to just unlock the next mission or outpost so I could progress.

Challenge missions - Ok, these are fun for a while, but not really RPG material per se.

Elite missions - Frustrating and not balanced at all. Just a high number of mobs spawned into the map and that's that. Bigger alliances have the upper hand here, so forget to enter one of those if you are a part of a small alliance. Maybe you get lucky and the winning alliance invites you into the party.

Alliance missions - Great marketing here ArenaNet. Not only they are not alliance battles (as in grouping with guilds from the same alliance), but they are also not 12 vs. 12. I don't mind that there are 3 teams of 4 players, just give me the choice to talk with all of them and check their party status.

After the initial enthusiasm I quickly got bored of Factions and seeing as the sale numbers quickly dropped after the start (check sale number statistics on various sites, like Amazon.com) I think ArenaNet will have problems if they don't rethink their chapter strategy.

torquemada · May 11, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

I think the whole GW series is basically "no-RP-love". Hell, youll get yourself ridiculed for having a RP name...

That's because GW is basically not a RP game, but an action one. And the scarce content you get you'll have to skip because of characters named "XxX PNWD U XxX" will grief you to hell.

This is not a whine. I knew full well it's not a RPG when I bought it, and I LOVE GW. Yet I miss true RPG'ing greatly (Oblivion came out to be console-lovin BS)...so what's the alternative?

Tr0n · May 11, 2006, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Actually Jeff Strain said repeatedly at various interviews that Guild Wars always was and will be primarily an RPG game.

That's why I find it very strange that they don't change their design and planning organisation accordingly.

After all, there are more casual RPG players out there than hardcore PvP.

Xenrath · May 11, 2006, 09:21 AM // 09:21

There's a petition for a roleplaying district somewhere (not sure where the thread is)

As said above, GW is not a role playing game, except in the very loosest sense in that you control a fantasy character, in a fictional world. It's basically an action game where most of the time you run around killing things, or doing quests which involve running around killing things. Don't expect to be able to walk around a town and strike up a conversation about the peril of Ascalon and whatever

For roleplaying online, Neverwinter Nights is quite good (no monthly fee either) as it has RP specific servers.

GW never really has been and probably won't be, an RPG game along those lines - for one thing, there are no Games Masters to dynamically influence/control events.

torquemada · May 11, 2006, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Yep, I really think about NWN2 alot these days.

In a strict sense, I bought GW in order to form a party and quest and adventure...only laters did I find out that there's no tavrens or dungeons or...but I fell in love with GW in the meantime.

Just miss something RPG to play in between...

Xenrath · May 11, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Here is the rpg district petition thread

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=12840

If enough people show interest/post, maybe Anet might do something about it eventually - though I still think this would involve the addition of live games masters to set tasks and quests/control NPC's etc. It may be out of scope for GW to do this...

Fossa · May 11, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

I found the main story rather good, although too short. Loved the "looking back" sequnces of Shiro

torquemada · May 11, 2006, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

If enough people show interest/post, maybe Anet might do something about it eventually - though I still think this would involve the addition of live games masters to set tasks and quests/control NPC's etc. It may be out of scope for GW to do this...

Definitely out of scope...unless they hire GM volounteers from the community.

Anyway, I'm not sure it'd be easy to RP in GW even if they do introduce RP district, since GW is not "RP friendly"...

Tr0n · May 11, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fossa

I found the main story rather good, although too short. Loved the "looking back" sequnces of Shiro

Rather good?

If you want to know what good story is, try Dreamfall: The Longest Journey for example.

It's not the same genre, but it will give you an idea on how a good story is told, how characters are presented etc...

MustumArden · May 11, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by torquemada

Oblivion came out to be console-lovin BS

To me, this statement makes you at least as bad as "XxX PNWD U XxX". It's ok to be a platform elitist, which is the most short-sited behavior I can think of in gaming, but it's a crime to have a stupid name and act like a gameplay elitist? I think not. Both behaviors are ridiculous. At least one doesn't close you off from hundreds of the best games ever made.

Kakumei · May 11, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tr0n

Rather good?

If you want to know what good story is, try Dreamfall: The Longest Journey for example.

It's not the same genre, but it will give you an idea on how a good story is told, how characters are presented etc...

Dreamfall (and its prequel, The Longest Journey) are adventure games.

Guild Wars is a (pseudo) MMORPG.

Not really comparable.

Tr0n · May 11, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Sure, but it's just to give an idea on how a story should be.

Interesting, immersing, alive, dynamic, and not some pale, predictable and boring version.

Kakumei · May 11, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tr0n

Sure, but it's just to give an idea on how a story should be.

Interesting, immersing, alive, dynamic, and not some pale, predictable and boring version.

All Dreamfall and TLJ ARE is story. And pretty visuals. That's all they are, that's all they HAVE to be. There doesn't need to be any real content in those games, because the story is what the games are about.

Whereas in GW, you have to not only have a passable story, you have to have an enormous assortment of content to keep people playing.

torquemada · May 11, 2006, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MustumArden

To me, this statement makes you at least as bad as "XxX PNWD U XxX". It's ok to be a platform elitist, which is the most short-sited behavior I can think of in gaming, but it's a crime to have a stupid name and act like a gameplay elitist? I think not. Both behaviors are ridiculous. At least one doesn't close you off from hundreds of the best games ever made.

Before this explodes into a flame war, let me explain.
Didn't mean to be platform-elitist. Yet I fail to see why should Oblivion seem like a platform game ported to PC. I mean, what they did to the interface and skills and the deapth in general makes it plain this traditionally PC title was designed for a console. If you look at Oblivion's venerable prequels, you'll see that what they did was polish graphics and cut down game depth. From a RP perspective, that kills a lot for me.

But this is not a PC vs console flame thread (thank goodness). I generally do feel that console games have less depth than PC games, and also feel that this lacking is inherent to console design. What they lack in depth they make up on other fields. Yep I was rash for associating words console and BS. But damn it annoys me that games have less and less depth instead of more depth...just plain annoying. Elitist? Hell, let's go and play tetris, it was a good game...do we need better...hell no...as long as it has DirectX9 bump mappings.

Tr0n · May 11, 2006, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

All Dreamfall and TLJ ARE is story. And pretty visuals. That's all they are, that's all they HAVE to be. There doesn't need to be any real content in those games, because the story is what the games are about.

Whereas in GW, you have to not only have a passable story, you have to have an enormous assortment of content to keep people playing.

I don't really understand this argument.

You're saying you don't need a good story, because you can also do other stuff?

Well my friend, than GW should just completely abandom the story PvE mission type.

You either do something right, or you don't do it at all.

Kakumei · May 11, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tr0n

I don't really understand this argument.

You're saying you don't need a good story, because you can also do other stuff?

Well my friend, than GW should just completely abandom the story PvE mission type.

You either do something right, or you don't do it at all.

I'm saying you can't expect Hemingway from a game where they don't have the time/resources to focus on just story and nothing else.

torquemada · May 11, 2006, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Hehe, speaking of good plots, btw, anybody remembers Planescape:Torment?

PS: Don't trust the skull

Tr0n · May 11, 2006, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

I'm saying you can't expect Hemingway from a game where they don't have the time/resources to focus on just story and nothing else.

It's not that the Story is not good (when you look at the manuscripts you get with the game you can see they have put a lot of work into it) it's how they present it in-game.

Very superficially and uninteresting.

Gli · May 11, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

RE: the Shiro cinematics

Honestly, I think some of the Shiro segments are pretty preposterous, especially how he's always walking around with his swords out. Swords that mysteriously vanish into thin air for a few seconds whenever he's doing emotes.

Really poorly done.

torquemada · May 11, 2006, 01:09 PM // 13:09

I'm suspicios how Menhlo did some favors for the Kurzicks "ages ago". Since he is like 22 yrs old (from teh Manuscripts)...he must have indebted them when he was...what...5yrs old??

And Shiro slaying the prophetess (or fortune teller) and she still helping him just before passing out (not even concerned that he actually ran her thru for no apparent reason) - yeah real convincing and lifelike....